Bridging science, soul, & symbol with Dr Khaled ElSherbini
An interview for Integral Collective, by Dana Toerien
There are some teachers who don’t just share ideas — they shift something in your inner landscape. Dr Khaled ElSherbini is one of them.
A former aerospace engineer and one of the founding members of the Egyptian Space Agency, Khaled’s professional path might suggest a life rooted in logic and material inquiry. But beneath the surface was a quiet, persistent call — a draw toward meaning, wholeness, and the deeper layers of human experience.
“Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.”
This quote came to mind as I watched Khaled’s video portfolio on the Consciousness Academy website, detailing his professional journey. His presence has always struck me as someone who doesn’t just pass on information, but transmits something deeper — an aliveness of inquiry.
I first encountered Khaled during the Resilience module of my Integral Coaching training two years ago. Something about his synthesis of spiritual, psychological, and scientific traditions stuck with me — like a seed planted. Speaking with him now, I feel myself grounded and elevated at once. Listening to him feels like being close to collective wisdom.
Below is an edited Q&A from our conversation, which I hope captures a thread of that experience.
Dana: You’ve had such a rich and multi-layered career across engineering, innovation, research, psychology, and consciousness studies. Was there a particular moment or period in your life that catalysed the shift from your scientific career toward a more transpersonal path? How did that spiritual emergence unfold for you?
Khaled: The emergence happened slowly — like the layering of elements before a threshold. From the outside, my path looked linear: I studied mechanical and aerospace engineering, earned a doctorate, co-founded the Egyptian Space Agency, taught at universities, led R&D in companies. Everything aligned with what society would call “success.”
But behind me, I had this sense over my right shoulder — always behind the right shoulder, for some reason — I could feel another pull. The soul’s voice. I’d read a quote or a book that touched something deeper and I’d feel it stir. But I’d say to myself: “When I finish this project… when the kids finish school… I’ll get to it.”
Eventually, the split between outer success and inner longing became unbearable. Around 15 years ago, I took a risk — a one-year sabbatical to listen to the call. That year never ended.
I left my corporate roles, university post, income, and stepped into the unknown. I found a quiet place in the Sinai mountains near the sacred sites — secluded but comfortable. I spent time resting, reading, meditating, writing… slowly shedding an old skin. And then something started to emerge.
Like the snake, a symbol of transformation in many traditions, I was shedding an identity. And what arose wasn’t a rejection of science — it was a reintegration. I saw how decades of academic work could now serve something deeper: the revival of ancient wisdom in a modern language that could speak to the human soul.
Dana: You draw from both scientific disciplines and spiritual traditions — two domains often seen as fundamentally distinct, even contradictory. How do you personally reconcile or integrate the ways of knowing between science (with its empirical materialism) and spirituality (with its ontological and experiential depth)? Has this been a challenging synthesis, and how has it evolved for you over time?
Khaled: That’s a beautiful question. I like to offer a framework — a map of nested realms of knowledge. It’s not enough to say, “Science doesn’t explain everything.” We need to show where each kind of knowing fits.
We start at the gross level: the physical world of atoms, rocks, metals — studied through physics and chemistry. Then we move to living systems: biology, which adds a layer of complexity. Next is neurobiology, studying the brain. Still material, but more subtle.
Then comes psychology — a major shift. It deals with thoughts, emotions, inner images — phenomena that can’t be weighed or photographed, yet are very real. This is subtle knowledge.
Beyond that, we find philosophy, theology, and contemplative traditions — exploring meaning, myth, and archetype. These belong to what the East calls the causal realm: the realm of essential qualities and primordial patterns. The Sufis speak of the qalb — the spiritual heart — which receives knowledge not through data, but through direct resonance.
This is not linear. All these realms are present here and now. Heaven and hell are not locations — they’re states of being. The fragmented inner world is reflected in our external conflicts. Integration begins when we see that our inner landscape holds these realms simultaneously.
Dana: From satellites and wind turbines to human consciousness and psycho-spiritual systems — you seem to approach all domains with a builder’s mindset. In what ways has your background in systems engineering influenced how you design frameworks for inner development?
Khaled: Yes — that’s one of the gifts of science. It trained my mind to seek order, to build frameworks, to sequence ideas. So as I immersed myself in spiritual and psychological studies, I began creating structures that could hold these insights.
For example, when I teach the stages of knowing, or the stages of the heart, I lay out a model. Then I invite people to locate themselves: “This is where you are. This is the next step. This is what you’ll likely meet along the way.”
I think that’s why people from so many backgrounds — engineers, doctors, mystics — resonate with the work. We’re not talking in silos. We’re describing the same human experience, but through different languages and realms of being.
Dana: You’ve created several unique frameworks such as the Stages of the Heart. How did you know that something was ready to be shared with others as a teaching?
Khaled: It didn’t happen overnight. For years, I was simply talking — responding to invitations, sharing ideas informally. One time, a friend invited me to a beach retreat. I had no plan. He ended up retreating into his room, and I ended up holding space for three days straight. Just speaking from what wanted to emerge.
That’s when people asked me: “Can you give a course?” I had never imagined that.
I started with mindfulness — weaving Western practices with Sufi concepts like muraqaba (self-observation) and hudur (presence). Over time, I discovered the Enneagram — but I saw it immediately as something archetypal, not just personality-based. Each type became a divine ray — a unique frequency of soul expression.
Gradually, over five or six years, a sequence emerged:
First: Enneagram of Personality — Who am I?
Then: Enneagram of Psychology — Why am I like this?
Where we explore psychological studies of shadow, ego, inner critic, inner child, and how those themes show up uniquely for each type.Then: Enneagram of Transformation — What is my greatest potential, and how can I realise it?
We integrate mindfulness and contemplative practices tailored to each type.
And then, beyond that:
Stages of the Mind — inspired by Spiral Dynamics and Integral Theory
Stages of the Heart — charting the psycho-spiritual evolution of our inner capacity
Finally: Dimensions of Being — integrating it all together.
Throughout, we move one step at a time. In Arabic, we say wahda wahda — bit by bit. Russians say chut chut. There is no rush. No final destination. Transformation, when it unfolds naturally, happens both more slowly and more deeply — and ironically, more quickly, too.
Dana: Lastly, there are many coaches, facilitators, and creatives — including readers of Integral Expression — who are also trying to weave together different disciplines and find language for their own emergent work. What would you say to someone standing at the edge of their next iteration, not sure how to bring it all together?
Khaled: Believe in yourself. This world teaches us we’re lacking, that others have something we don’t. But each of us carries a message — a dynamic message. As you walk your path, your truth will keep unfolding. The more you listen, the more it reveals itself.
And don’t take yourself too seriously. Don’t grip too tightly to your beliefs, models — even my teachings. Stay open. Let the spirit behind it all guide you. Take one step at a time.
As Khaled spoke, I found myself tracing a thread — not just of ideas, but of presence. His words, though vast in scope, remained grounded. The journey from engineering to mysticism was not a leap, but a spiral — integrating the concrete and the contemplative, the measurable and the meaningful.
His voice doesn’t just explain something. It transmits a felt sense of coherence. Of a heart that holds both multiplicity and unity.
This is the spirit of Integral Collective — to honour those who are weaving wholes from fragments, and listening for the fire behind the form.
Written and interviewed by Dana Toerien
If you’re building something nuanced, emergent, and impact-driven — and you’re looking for a thought partner who can help you shape, hold, and express it — I’d love to connect.